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Q: And we're with Lucy LeDuke in her apartment in Queens.
L: Type shit. Sorry.
Q: This is one of my best friends. And she's putting her laundry away. She has five minutes before she has to go to work, maybe. She shrugs. So this is my first interview. I don't want to call it an interview. I'm following her around her apartment. More of a conversation. When’s the last time you felt sincere shame?
L: Oh my God. Like, sincere shame?.
I feel like pretty recently… is it shame or is it guilt? Okay.
Q: They're really similar emotions.
L: I know. They're both obviously very selfish. I guess for me shame and guilt feel very much like self- preservation. When it's…I don't know…we’re all just like people trying to live our fucking lives. Yeah. And we do horrible shit– not horrible shit.
Q: Sometimes.
L: Yeah, sometimes we be doing horrible shit. That's a really good question.
Q: I know, it's hard to be asked when you haven't had time to think about it.
She's washing her face. We're in the bathroom.
L: Yeah. I'm getting ready for work. SoI can go tattoo tourists.
I feel like I felt a lot of shame the last time I had like a one night stand.
Q: When was it?
L: Fuck, I don't… I have to look. Probably, I want to say six months ago. Hmm.
Q: Who was it with? Someone you didn't know?
L: We had fucked before. But like, I kind of knew that I didn't like her. And she was doing me basically like a favor.
And, God, why am I being… I'm like afraid to even…whatever. It doesn't matter. They basically, like, came and were watching Toaf while I was out of town. I saw it as like–and mind you, I really like this person. Like I think they're very sweet. And mean well. If we were actual friends, I feel like they'd be a good friend.
Q: (interrupting) Oh my God, it's crazy that you have to put it (shaving cream) on your eyebrows.
L: I know. I had a friend who made fun of me, just like, “oh, my dad never taught me how to shave my forehead.” And I was just like, you're transphobic. I
Q: t's because Lucy shaves her eyebrows.
L: Yeah. So basically, it was my idea too. Like they came over and I was like, “my flight's at 5AM, so why don't you, like, spend the night? And, you know, then you can sleep in and I'll leave and it won't be weird or whatever for the dog. And we ended up hooking up because it was just kind of like, well, why are you staying here? Because I don't usually like people sleeping in my bed.
Q: Oh, they slept in your bed.
L: Yeah. Yeah. But I was like pulling an all-nighter. did not want to have sex with them, like at all. But I felt like it was the right thing to do. I felt like it was the polite thing to do.
Q: Because they wanted to have sex with you?
L: I came up with the idea. And I was like, yeah, we should just like fuck and pull an all nighter and be sexy. I was trying so hard to get worked up enough to have sex. And I just, it just never happened. I was like, fine. It's just like, the whole time I didn't want to be doing it. Which is not great. It's not ideal. You should probably want to fuck the And I just remember leaving that morning and being like, God. I have no fucking…. I just felt really disappointed in myself and shameful. That's happened to me a lot. Like I've done that a lot where I’ve fucked someone because I just thought it was the polite thing or right thing to do. And it's like (to herself) you just put yourself in a really weird situation.
Q: Yeah, all of the step work I've done around that has been like, it's not okay to do that to someone else. (Lying about wanting to have sex), but I violated myself. I don't know if you felt that way.I abandoned myself.
L: Yeah, I fully was like actively trying to talk myself into it. Like, juist do it, stop being such a pussy. Hmm. It's like, it's like non- consensual. Yeah. To yourself
Q: Oh my God. The amount of times I've done that.
Have you let go of the shame yet? Or do you think it stays?
L: I think some shame can stay but I think that also has to do with what you're doing to work through that.
There are things that I've done in my past that were shameful and like, yeah, sometimes I have hiccups where I'm just like oh god you really did that and there are other times when I was not a good person or a bad person but just dumb and, like, inconsiderate of other people's feelings or whatever.
So no. I think with that situation it was pretty easy for me to be like, okay, yeah. I mean, I have to use that as a reminder of why I don't do it and I try not to do it anymore. It still happens sometimes but, I don’t know, I think everyone does it.
Q: I think everyone does it.
L: Definitely.
Q: Because, I was gonna ask, do you think it's because we're addicts?
L: I remember there were times in relationships where I didn't want to have sex but my fucking partner did and, like, I love them soit wasn't like a traumatic thing for me. Eventually I'd come around. At first I'd be like I'm kind of lazy, I don't want to. I was just like okay okay, let's rally.
Q: But that feels different?
L: Yeah. I also think there's a lot of pressure to be very sexual. Everything that is like, technically cool or whatever…what we were raised on is sexual. I you’re not sexual it’s like you're a fucking nerd.
Q: Well, thanks for answering the question. How did it feel to think about it again?
L: (Luci to her dog) “Crate.”
Q: Putting her dog in the crate.
L: Jail.
Q: Hahahaha.
L: It felt fine, you know. i I almost moreso feel bad for them. I'm just like, dude, you didn't have to do all that.
Q: Yeah, but maybe they wanted to.. I mean, it's hard. I’'ve been in that situation and then it's hard to know because you know what you're doing to yourself. And so then you start wondering if the other person did it to themselves, too.
L: Yeah.